Adirondack Guideboat with fabric Phil S

[danmart77]

Here are several photos for your files Phil. Found them somewhere on the web and thought you could use them for reference. Might be in one on the address list I sent in the PM with rib info??

This looks something like you described to me when we talked. The cloth will speed up the build tremendously and cut down some on the weight. With the ribs and stringers I think it is beautiful to look at this one.

Its not a "woodie" but it looks like a good boat to row.

​

 

[Phil S]

EXACTLY - This is what I want to build as soon as I finish the spice boxes

I am already deeply into the research. I tend to do a bunch of research, look at a lot of plans - but when I start I put the plans away and make it mine, for better or worse

The photos are the SOF (skin on frame) Adirondack Guide-Boat made by Brian Schutz of Cape Falcon Kayak in Oregon. It is based on the AGB called "The Virginia" made by Dwight Grant and his son Lewis in 1905.

Brian's boat is covered with 840 denier Jr Ballistic nylon and waterproofed with a two-part poly coating

To save weight, I am considering using 3.7 oz rip-stop dacron with triangulated kevlar roving for additional strength

The ribs will either be laminated white oak or cyprus heat bent to forms and glued with epoxy. I am considering also laminating in some carbon fiber allowing me to reduce the rib size and save weight

The stringers will be oak or ash

Trim will probably be cherry

My goal is to have this boat in the water by May 2018

 

[JohnnyR]

Curious, I've never rowed anything like this but a lot of dingys. I noticed the captured oar locks. I always hated them because the oars don't rotate with your wrists. Other than guarding against losing the oars, is there any reason for them? Sorry if I hijacked the thread.

 

[Phil S]

Curious, I've never rowed anything like this but a lot of dingys. I noticed the captured oar locks. I always hated them because the oars don't rotate with your wrists. Other than guarding against losing the oars, is there any reason for them? Sorry if I hijacked the thread.

Good question - one more to research

 

[nn4jw]

It's nothing but a guess about the captured oar locks, but here goes. I believe this type of boat was designed for a guide and a fisherman, most likely a flyfisherman. The guide has to do some fancy manuevering when there's a fish on as well as be ready to handle a landing net. Taking time to bring the oars into the boat before netting the client's fish might take too much time and cost the client his fish. With captured oars the guide can just let go and deal with the client's needs as required.

But I'm just a poor flyfisherman who's never utilized a guide or beautiful boat like the pictured one - just a redneck jon boat and electric trolling motor so I didn't have to mess with oars Unless my battery died.

 

[AllanD]

I have an opinion on oar locks but you are probably already ahead of me. I definitely don't like the captured locks like in the photo where the oars have a pin through them. With those locks you can't feather the oars or momentarily slide them inboard if needed. It takes more effort to learn but once you get used to open locks you won't use anything else. I like the bronze Cobra oarlocks:

http://www.paddlesandoars.com/Oars/COBRA-OAR-LOCKS/

I also don't like Oar Rights for the same reasons. My uses are different from a AGB which will be used on a lake since I use my driftboat and my raft on rivers but my preferences would still be open locks.

 

[danmart77]

Curious, I've never rowed anything like this but a lot of dingys. I noticed the captured oar locks. I always hated them because the oars don't rotate with your wrists. Other than guarding against losing the oars, is there any reason for them? Sorry if I hijacked the thread.

http://www.guideboats.com/history/

Good history of the GB by Chris Woodard. He's one of the last traditional builders in the area.

Several reasons for the "captured locks" and the GB.

Unlike the dinghy, the rowing motion of the GB is a crossover at the starting moment of the pull. The oar lock position is very low to the water when compared to dories and pulling wherries.

The GB in its utility day was used to "carry" not portage from lake to lake on the back of a guide using a yoke. When the boat was upside down, other locks would fall out, clank along and maybe get lost in the woods or water. That would be a bad day. A bit harder to loose an oar.

I have rowed several 16 footers and some shorter GBs and I can tell you -- they can really move along. I had more trouble mastering the crossover position than any twisting worries. After 30 minutes, it felt natural.

Lastly, the pride of the guides in their boats was the ability to cut thru rough waters in high winds while carrying a man and many times a deer in the boat. Keeping both oars almost 7 feet out and evenly placed was easier with this furniture. To date, I have not seen a GB in a museum with open locks.

Maybe just stuck on tradition? Not many guides carrying boats around the Blue Mt. Lake area. Maybe an experiment is in order.

As Phil will find out -- the brass ain't cheap.

Dan

 

[danmart77]

It's nothing but a guess about the captured oar locks, but here goes. I believe this type of boat was designed for a guide and a fisherman, most likely a flyfisherman. The guide has to do some fancy manuevering when there's a fish on as well as be ready to handle a landing net. Taking time to bring the oars into the boat before netting the client's fish might take too much time and cost the client his fish. With captured oars the guide can just let go and deal with the client's needs as required.

But I'm just a poor flyfisherman who's never utilized a guide or beautiful boat like the pictured one - just a redneck jon boat and electric trolling motor so I didn't have to mess with oars Unless my battery died.

Not sure how much fishing vs transporting game back to a campsite was done but I do know one thing: Lots of big folks from the city came up to the Adirondacks to have a guide do most of the work.​

 

[Phil S]

Dan, Darn it you are right. The reproduction oarlocks from Shaw and Tenney in Maine will cost three Ben Franklins. That is more than than the wood, fabric and finish cost, but I am not sure there is a good alternative. I will wait until the boat is almost done before I order.
Thanks

 

[JohnnyR]

Dan, Darn it you are right. The reproduction oarlocks from Shaw and Tenney in Maine will cost three Ben Franklins. That is more than than the wood, fabric and finish cost, but I am not sure there is a good alternative. I will wait until the boat is almost done before I order.
Thanks

Bronze plate these:

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=8172&familyName=Perko+North+River+Rowlock+Horns

 

[Jeff]

http://www.guideboats.com/history/

Thanks Dan. It's a good A-Z read.

 

[gazzer]

Dan, Darn it you are right. The reproduction oarlocks from Shaw and Tenney in Maine will cost three Ben Franklins. That is more than than the wood, fabric and finish cost, but I am not sure there is a good alternative. I will wait until the boat is almost done before I order.
Thanks

I bought a set of Shaw & Tenney #1 1/2 horn oarlocks and am pretty happy with them. They were one of the few good quality larger locks that I needed for the heavier oars I built for my sail boat. Any bronze lock with a machined shaft won't be cheap. The 2" open oarlock/socket sets are nice as well. I have a set that I am hankering to build a boat around.

 

[Jeff]

Any bronze lock with a machined shaft won't be cheap.

Am I looking at the right products at only $39/pair? I wouldn't call them expensive as for as boat equipment goes. I don't have a boat anymore so maybe I'm out of touch. :eusa_thin

 

[gazzer]

Am I looking at the right products at only $39/pair? I wouldn't call them expensive as for as boat equipment goes. I don't have a boat anymore so maybe I'm out of touch. :eusa_thin

I meant to say that my 2" lock/socket set was from Duck Trap Woodworking

The less expensive bronze or brass may work well, but the castings may be rough and the shafts not machined round and sized to fit the socket. This won't affect overall function, but the rowing action may not be as nice, especially if the shaft on loose side in the socket.

You may want to browse ebay for used locks. Wilcox-Crittenden hardware can be found frequently and is very nice.