8" jointer: 2hp or 3hp?

[brenthenze]

Hi all,

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and buy myself an 8" jointer by the end of the summer, and I'm weighing the advantages and disadvantages of the two new Grizzly models: G0490 (3hp) and G0586 (2hp).

The one I like most is the 0490 (3hp), partly because of the extra horsepower but also because of the built-in mobile base. I'm not especially happy with the add-on mobile base that I bought for my bandsaw, and having integrated wheels would be really handy in my relatively small shop. Buying a high quality mobile base for the 2hp jointer would probably eat up the $90 cost difference in the two.

More pressing is power requirements. The 3hp can only be run on 220v. The 2hp can be wired for 220 OR 110, just like my bandsaw. My shop was originally wired for 220, but one of the two hot leads is apparently broken somewhere underground (it was that way when I bought the house), so I've disconnected the broken lead, effectively leaving me with a 110v circuit.

My options are:
(a) buy the 2hp jointer and wire it for 110v, as I've done with my bandsaw (which works fine), and buy a mobile base; or
(b) buy the 3hp jointer and run a new buried cable from house to shop, a distance of about 200ft from box to box. I won't need to add anything in the shop (there's already a 22v circuit) or in the main panel--just run the new wire.


So, I suppose my question for those with 8" jointers is: is the extra power (2hp to 3hp) noticeable? (I haven't priced trencher rentals or cable purchase, so I know that I'll have to weigh the benefits of 3hp against the cost and labor of running the new cable.)

Your thoughts, informed or just hunches, are appreciated!

 

[Travis Porter]

HP ratings IMO are overstated many times. I trust more to amperage of the motor. Personally, I prefer 220V as it doesn't pull as much current on a single wire, but what you have is what you have. I currently have a DJ-20 I think that is 1.5 HP and haven't had any issues with it not handling what I have thrown at it.

As for wire, when I wired my shop, #4 copper was 75 cents a foot plus the conduit I put it in to bury it. Trencher will probably cost you $150 for a day.

 

[sapwood]

Brent,
No advice on the jointer, but replace the 220v if you can swing it. If you can rent a 4" wide trencher with 24" depth you could easily do it with a 1/2 day rental. I ran a 100' trench in an hour with an Ace Hardware 1/2 day rental at $40-50 (and one of the two belts were broken:roll.

And as Travis suggested, use conduit/pvc so you can pull more in later if needed. I laid cable, 10 guage wire, and telephone line . . . but didn't put in conduit. :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead: Later I needed more juice and couldn't add it :-(

Congrats on the jointer, no matter how you choose to power it :mrgreen:

Sapwood

 

[Steve D]

2 Hp is probably sufficient for an 8" jointer but do take a look at amps because hp is often exagerated. At some point in time, you will want 220 for a piece of equipment so you should consider fixing your problem at some point anyway. I put a 3Hp motor on my jointer but it is a 12" with a huge cutterhead.

 

[brenthenze]

Thanks, guys!

The 3hp Grizzly draws 18amps at 220v (dunno how that compares to the Delta); the 2hp draws 10/20 (at 220/110, respectively).

I agree that having 220 in the shop would be good, and I'm leaning toward adding it. My hesitation is that I'd like to build a bigger shop in the next 2-3 years in another location. (My current "shop" is really more of a "shed.") So I don't relish the thought of putting a few hundred into what will be a temporary shop upgrade. But on the other hand I don't want to skimp on a tool that I'll hopefully have for the next 20 years. And realistically, who knows when the new shop will actually materialize. (That's how it happens, right? They just materialize out of thin air?) :mrgreen:

 

[MLB3164]

Brent,
I personally have the Grizzly G0490 and have been very impressed. There isn't much rocket science going on with jointers. Big heavy flat cast iron with knives to make wood pretty. I think the big selling points for the G0490 are as you have brought up. The built in mobile base, an automatic savings, and the parallelogram beds. This type of bed system doesn't rely on dovetail gibbs to adjust the beds up and down. Mine is extremely smooth and easy to adjust. I don’t think you could go wrong with either jointer from Grizzly and I can say first hand that the people at Grizzly are first rate. If you can get your shop wired back again with 220v I think this would be the way to go. There are many who believe that 220v equipment is more efficient than 110v. That being said you are going to get more bang for your buck wiring either jointer 220v no matter what the HP ratings. I am not an electrical engineer so I will only have to go with what I have read. If you are ever in my area feel free to stop in and make some shavings on the G0490.

Marty

 

[McRabbet]

If you are considering a near-term move of your shop to a new location, I would consider running a line above ground to save the effort of trenching and laying conduit until you build that bigger shop. You'll need a cable that is rated for UV exposure and has the ampacity for your circuits -- I recommend #4 AWG so you do not have significant voltage drop.

Rob

 

[brenthenze]

If you are considering a near-term move of your shop to a new location, I would consider running a line above ground to save the effort of trenching and laying conduit until you build that bigger shop. You'll need a cable that is rated for UV exposure and has the ampacity for your circuits -- I recommend #4 AWG so you do not have significant voltage drop.

Rob

Do you mean an aerial, or something more like a big lead cord? "Soon" means "hopefully in the next two years," so any solution would have to survive a couple seasons. And an aerial would require a pole, which must be about as complicated to install as running an underground wire, I'd guess. I suppose since one of the two leads works fine, I could just plug in the second lead (aka a lead cord) for when I use the jointer! But that doesn't seem very elegant!

 

[brenthenze]

Brent,
I personally have the Grizzly G0490 and have been very impressed. There isn't much rocket science going on with jointers....I don’t think you could go wrong with either jointer from Grizzly and I can say first hand that the people at Grizzly are first rate.
Marty

Yeah, I've been really happy with my Grizzly bandsaw (G0513); I see that they now have a new "extreme" version of that saw (with cast iron wheels, cast iron fence, add-on resaw fence, extended table, and upgraded guides), not that I'm looking to replace the one I have. So far it's the only big equipment that I've bought from Grizzly, but they were very helpful when I made that purchase, and it's a beautiful saw (not even just "beautiful for the price").

 

[Steve D]

Just a few other things to consider. Motors that are dual voltage perform the same at 220V as they do at 110V. They aren't more efficient and they don't save electricity. The benefit of higher voltage is that less amps are involved so you can use a lighter gauge wire and lower amperage circuit breakers.

You also need to de-rate when determining wire and breaker size when looking at load. Most codes use 80% of breaker rating for full load amps. You shouldn't put a motor that draws 18 amps on a 20 amp breaker because of this requirement. 18 amps should be on a 25 amp breaker and the wire should be sized accordingly.

 

[NCPete]

it is ironic that this thread popped up this morning, as I was staring rather intensely at the Grizzly jointers. I had very nearly settled on the G0586 until I read this... now I think I will go with the 490, when it comes time to pull the trigger. I have to spend the next big chunk of money wiring the garage, so that I can do more than just run my shop-lights or a machine.

 

[Ozzie-x]

....The benefit of higher voltage is that less amps are involved so you can use a lighter gauge wire and lower amperage circuit breakers.

You also need to de-rate when determining wire and breaker size when looking at load. Most codes use 80% of breaker rating for full load amps. You shouldn't put a motor that draws 18 amps on a 20 amp breaker because of this requirement. 18 amps should be on a 25 amp breaker and the wire should be sized accordingly.

Steve is right about going to the higher voltage to reduce wire size. Double the voltage and cut the amps in half and the wire ampacity in half, which will mean cheaper wiring. Don't know if anyone has bought any wire lately, but copper prices have gone nuts and wire is outrageous. A 250' roll of plain 'ol 12/2 copper romex is over $100 8-O . Of course the larger wire is a LOT more. 500 kcmil THHN copper is $12.50 per foot:crybaby2:. Aluminum wire has also increased in price but is still much less than copper.So the next time you go to buy wire you're going to be shocked, especially if you're bying larger guage wire for feeders and such. Aluminum wire is fine for residential work as long as the terminations are done properly.

 

[brenthenze]

Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions so far! I have one further wiring question. Suppose I've decided to restore 220v service to my shop. Since "half" of my cable works fine (that is, one of the 110v leads works fine), is there any reason why I couldn't simply run an additional 110v line to the shop and wire that to the other pole of the 220v circuit breaker? Or, to put it another way, is there any reason why the two hot wires in a 220v cable have to be encased in the same sheathing (or in the same conduit) as opposed to run separately, but joined at the service boxes at each end to make up the 220v? Are there "phase" issues that require the wires to travel together?

If the above would work, then how about simply running a heavy-duty lead cord along the ground, plugged into a house outlet (one a separate 110v circuit) when needed, and wired to the second bus in the shop's circuit panel? Then I could just roll out the wire when I head to the shop and need a 220v circuit. What do you think?

 

[Gofor]

Some thoughts:
1st: If you know someone with a signal generator (cable guy, plumber, or electrician, disconnect the bad lead to your shed, put a signal on it, and follow it to the break. Dig one hole, fix it and you're back in business.
2nd: If option one is not a player, dig up the old wire, find the break the hard way, repair it and you don't have to spend all the money on new copper. A cheap metal locator will allow you to follow the wire if you don't know where it is.
3rd choice: Run a new trench and lay in conduit. That way you can retrieve the wire to use in you new workshop and run a smaller gauge to the shed if you still need elect there.
If you go option 2 and end up digging up most of the old wire, I would lay conduit in the trench and pull the wire through it for the reasons in option 3.

Good luck:lol:

 

[cpowell]

Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions so far! I have one further wiring question. Suppose I've decided to restore 220v service to my shop. Since "half" of my cable works fine (that is, one of the 110v leads works fine), is there any reason why I couldn't simply run an additional 110v line to the shop and wire that to the other pole of the 220v circuit breaker? Or, to put it another way, is there any reason why the two hot wires in a 220v cable have to be encased in the same sheathing (or in the same conduit) as opposed to run separately, but joined at the service boxes at each end to make up the 220v? Are there "phase" issues that require the wires to travel together?

If the above would work, then how about simply running a heavy-duty lead cord along the ground, plugged into a house outlet (one a separate 110v circuit) when needed, and wired to the second bus in the shop's circuit panel? Then I could just roll out the wire when I head to the shop and need a 220v circuit. What do you think?

You cannot run a separate 110V to the shop from an outlet in the house to supply the missing supply leg for the 220V main at the shop. The two 110V hot legs that make up the 220V to the shop must be fed from a single 2-pole breaker.

The best bet would be to get someone to locate the break then you can make the repair. You can splice the break then enclose the repaired area in a sealed watertight box. Maybe you could pay the phone company or cable guy (NOT Larry) to locate the break for you.

If you don't go that route then run new wire.

Out of curiousity, how many wires were originally pulled from the house panel to the shop panel...3 wires and a ground or just 3 wires (L1, L2, Neutral)?

Chuck

 

[brenthenze]

Out of curiousity, how many wires were originally pulled from the house panel to the shop panel...3 wires and a ground or just 3 wires (L1, L2, Neutral)?

Chuck

Looks like just two wires plus ground.

 

[cpowell]

Here's a useful link that discusses wiring a detached garage (shop). It is fairly detailed. I have looked at the sections for underground feed and believe them to be accurate.

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/accessory/detgarage/detgarageshow.htm

Chuck