#1 Lumber at Home Depot

[LeftyTom]

Yes, shoppers, the BORG does this, though under the radar of the competition. I was picking up some spindles for a "stare and compare" with my current porch railing. Offhand, I ask the associate if HD carries #1 lumber, me needing about 29' of 2x4. He walks me over to a bin cleverly tagged "#2 SDRY, 2x4". To further confound the competition, the lumber is stamped "KD19HT".

Keep this under your hats. We wouldn't want to let the masses in on this scheme.

 

[pslamp32]

Can someone explain what this means to me. What is #1 or #2 lumber? I assume #1 is higher grade.

 

[LeftyTom]

#1 is sometimes marked "appearance grade", having fewer imperfections. Sears used to grade items Good Better and Best; #1 would be Best. Best costs more than Better or Good.

Forgive my attempt at an unscientific explanation.

KD19HT KD (kild dried) 19 (% moisture content, aka MC) HT (heat treated) The lower % MC, the better (less shrinkage, holds paint or stain better). I think KDAT is 12% MC. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[jeff...]

Actually the hardwood gardes are:

FAS (first and seconds)
1F / Select (one Face, FAS one side, #1 the other side)
#1
#2
#3

Assuming your working with good grade saw logs and flat sawing. To a sawyer FAS is usally first and seconds flat cuts off each face of the log, after the opening cut so it's usally the first and second boards to fall off the log on each of the four log faces. Larger diamater logs may actually yeild 3 and 4 FAS boards off each face, but it's not common.

F1 or select is usally boards 3 and 4 off each log face. Sometimes 5th, 6th and 7th cuts on a big diamater logs, if the log can stand it.

#1 common comes more of the center of the log, usally has a few knots from when the tree was young and had lots of branches. As the tree grows, it drops it's banches and gains height, the dropped banches are healed over and new wood grows over the knots. This newer growth is the good stuff (F1 and FAS), #1 common is where a sawyer usally yeilds most of his Board Footage from a log, hence the reason it's called common.

#2 comes from closer to the center of the tree or a bad grade saw log. It depends on how crowded the tree was when if was a sapling in the forest - if there are lots of knots and defect, it goes to make pallets. Very few forest trees around here produce this grade, something really has to be wrong, although it's very common that yard trees make this grade.

#3 is full of defect should not be put on a saw mill as it's a waste of time and the wood is really only good for firewood.

Take a look at this Black Walnut growing in the forest, note it has no branches till it crotched about 60 above the butt. This is a good grade forest saw log tree. Your be hard pressed to find a tree of this grade growing in someones yard. I Love being in a hardwood forest like this you never know what you'll find.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2701&d=1174512888

Keep in mind de-grade can be caused by drying also, someone who isn't able to control max moisture content loss per day in a kiln, can do some real damage to wood and create a pile of junk pretty easy. Kiln drying is a whole nother ball game and quarter sawing is another story...

 

[DaveO]

Jeff, in this case they are refering to softwood lumberHow Softwood Lumber is Graded

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Softwood lumber is graded using the American Lumber Standards, which are based on the structural integrity of a board. These grades consider the size and location of defects as well as the slope of grain in order to predict the load bearing capacity of the board. These factors are used to determine the percentage of clear wood in the board that in turn determines the grade. Several of the most common grades and their clear wood requirements are:[/FONT]

• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Select - at least 80% clear wood [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]#1 Structural - at least 75% clear wood [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]#2 Structural - at least 66% clear wood [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]#3 Structural - at least 50% clear wood [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Construction Grade - at least 57% clear wood [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Standard Grade - at least 43% clear wood [/FONT]
• [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Utility Grade - at least 29% clear wood[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Very large commercial mills are usually certified and are granted the right to grade stamp their lumber. Being certified is an expensive and involved process that precludes most mills from grade stamping. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Source: A Consumers' Guide to Buying and using Locally Produced Lumber, New York Department of Environmental Conservation and Black River - St.Lawrence Resource Conservation and Development Council[/SIZE][/FONT]




Dave

 

[jeff...]

Oh I must have missed that Dave - you mean SPF (Spruce / Pine / Fir) grades? If so I stay as far away from that as I possibly can.

 

[DaveO]

Oh I must have missed that Dave - you mean SPF (Spruce / Pine / Fir) grades? If so I stay as far away from that as I possibly can.

Me too, unless it's construction :-D

Dave

 

[jeff...]

Me too, unless it's construction :-D

Dave

There are all knotty, pine don't get big enough any more to have a good heartwood, let alone a good grade. I suspect a SPF 2x4-8' nowadays runs what about $3.00? I have not bought any in years, so I don't know.

I think KDAT is a Linux tar based tape archiver, that is designed to work with multiple archives on a single tape

 

[Keye]

Jeff,

I thought I had a reasonable understanding of grading hardwood until reading your post. Maybe I just do not understand your post. It almost seems as if yeild is not considered. If I do understand your post FAS is a higher grade than select and would cost more. I do not think I have seen wood sold as FAS. I am just now learning about private saw mills as a source of wood. Most of the places I have purchased wood from in the past have been like Steve Wall Lumber. I have not seen these type of suppliers sell FAS.

Where have I gone amiss here?

 

[Howard Acheson]

Let's take DavoO's excellent information and decode the grading stamp on the lumber that was found in Home Depot.

>> He walks me over to a bin cleverly tagged "#2 SDRY, 2x4". To further confound the competition, the lumber is stamped "KD19HT".

First, it's #2 construction lumber, not furniture lumber and the stamp information would not confuse the competition as it is standard abreviation for all softwood lumber.

Second, "SDRY" means it was surfaced or run through the mill's planer after it was dried at not to exceed 19% Equilibrium Moisture Content.

Third "KD19HT" means it was kiln dried to 19% EMC (Equilibrium Moisture Content). I am not at home so I can't look up "HT". 19% EMC is the minimum that can be labels as kiln dried. The lumber is kiln dried to this percentage because it minimizes the time in the kiln and reduced the weight for trucking.

So, what does all this mean? The first conclusion is that this is not very good lumber. The #2 grade for softwood indicates that it is a construction lumber not intended for appearence items. The fact that it is only dried to 19% means it will have to dry much further to be useful for anything but consruction. Because it will have to dry to about 12% minimum for furniture use, it will have to acclimate for a number of months before it can be used. Even for construction, KD19 is the cheapest lumber. My house was built with #2 KD12 dimentional lumber so there has been little wood movement and now wall or other cracks. The wood is certainly not usable for furniture or built in applications.

Finally, I will say that the HD around me sells SPF (Spruce, Pine, Fir) construction lumber that is KD12. It's more expensive but much straighter and lighter.

 

[jeff...]

Jeff,

I thought I had a reasonable understanding of grading hardwood until reading your post. Maybe I just do not understand your post. It almost seems as if yeild is not considered. If I do understand your post FAS is a higher grade than select and would cost more. I do not think I have seen wood sold as FAS. I am just now learning about private saw mills as a source of wood. Most of the places I have purchased wood from in the past have been like Steve Wall Lumber. I have not seen these type of suppliers sell FAS.

Where have I gone amiss here?

I don't doubt what your saying. Eventhough it's rare I step foot in a retail lumber yard, I havn't been to one for years, less it's a sawyer fireind's place.

FAS is two good faces / clear cuttings by grade rules, there are grade rules for hardwood, it's a pretty thick book way to much to type here. F1 or Select is one FAS face and one #1 face (one face is better than the other). Yes your also right, FAS is the highest grade and fetches top dollar in the retail market you'll have to hunt and peck for FAS, when you find it be prepared to shell out some big bucks.

Here's a few examples of FAS Black Walnut, Oak and Ash. Note the boards are clear or have very little defect, believe it or not this high dollar wood. Ivey was not kidding when he said "alot of fas here.." http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8528

I don't have a grader certification but I know a few people that are certified. In my experences, a good grade saw log should average around 20% FAS, 20% 1F, 40~50% #1 and 10~20% that's junk #2 and below. I don't grade any of the wood I cut, but I do cull out or give away anything that I think is #2 and below. Some people have told me I'm cheating myself by not taking a little extra time to grade and charge accordingly, maybe one of these days I'll get my tail into a class and get my certificate.

Here a few pics if some FAS lumber...
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3060&d=1178469293
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3014&d=1177993139
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3068&d=1178596891

BTW forgot to add #1 common is also called cabinet grade.

Thanks

 

[LeftyTom]

;-) I do want to point out this post was a lightheated poke at the HD associate for not knowing HD didn't carry #1 or better 2x4's. I deny any resemblance to being as mallet-headed as the original post may have made me appear.

On the bright side, I have learned more about lumber grades thru the replies. Thanks everyone :eusa_clap

 

[junquecol]

Was this the same HD guy who told me, when I asked where the hardware cloth was, "If you want hardware cloth, you need to go to a fabric store?"

 

[NCPete]

Was this the same HD guy who told me, when I asked where the hardware cloth was, "If you want hardware cloth, you need to go to a fabric store?"

you mean that's not where you get yours?:lol:

 

[LeftyTom]

Was this the same HD guy who told me, when I asked where the hardware cloth was, "If you want hardware cloth, you need to go to a fabric store?"

While you're there, would you pick up a pound of cheesecloth? I am thniking grilled chesse and soup for lunch.

 

[DIYGUY]

They are all equally dull in that vein - y'day I was standing in Lowe's trying to find lattice. I asked the man in the red vest for help and he looked at me and said it was in the garden section. I knew that was wrong by the way he looked at me, so shame on me for believing him. After I dragged my lumber-laden card all the way down there and back I did find the lattice one aisle away from where I asked my original question.

All that brings to mind is the old adage "believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see ..."

Was this the same HD guy who told me, when I asked where the hardware cloth was, "If you want hardware cloth, you need to go to a fabric store?"